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Strategies

Video Strategies

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• Melee Tactic, Bow used against 5 hit combo, SL66, Irithyll Rapier
• Example 2

 

 

Strategy 1 (Melee)

NORMAL MELEE MOVESET. Hardest one to get used to but gives many good openings. Stay near or in medium distance from it and circle to right. The key is to memorize the slow charged attacks so that you don't roll too soon. If you get hit and need to heal, roll away from it and make some distance. This moveset makes the Soul of Cinder highly aggressive, it will attempt to rush you down as soon as you try to gain some distance so hit-and-away strategies are not as effective here as they are with other bosses. It pays off to be aggressive in kind as the more damage you do to it in a short space of time, the closer it gets to being stunned and changing movesets.

MAGE MOVESET.  Keeping close is the way to beat this moveset, as most of its sorceries are activated upon reaching a certain distance from it. Homing Soulmass won't fire behind it and even if it does, simply by walking right you dodge it. It never dodges anything and casts slowly so you have great openings to do serious damage. Pontiff's Right Eye ring helps here (consecutive attacks gives dmg boost). The best opening is the Soul Stream (large beam attack): get behind it while it is casting and you are 100% safe! Remember to keep close, as it will try and leap across the room to get the distance it needs to cast its more damaging sorceries.

LANCE+FAITH MOVESET. Pretty simple to deal with. Get really close to it and circle to the right. Dodge everything (except Wrath of Gods) little right and towards it. Never attack after fast poke, only attack after its heavy attacks and charges.

CURVED SWORD+PYROMANCY MOVESET. This moveset appears intimidating and moves very fast, but hits far weaker than its straight sword moveset. Thankfully its attacks are normally preceded by a spinning wind-up and its attacks are telegraphed. Highly aggressive playstyles suit this moveset, and it is more of a DPS race than anything else. In this moveset it can use the Darkwood Grain Ring flip and use pyromancies such as Power Within, Great Combustion and more. Faster weapons here help but are not required, especially thrust weapons with the Leo Ring if you happen to have them. Best opening is after two heavy flaming slashes. It can do them at anytime but most often after it rolls towards the player. First horizontal slash comes out normally, the second is slightly delayed. The recovery time after the second slash is long enough to sneak in an attack and dodge away.

And finally,  PHASE TWO, GREAT LORD MOVESET. Really simple to deal with. Stay away and fish for jumping attack and the running poke. Dodge the jump attack little left and towards it so that you end up behind it and it won't do a follow up attack. Attack once and back away. Running poke is more difficult. Dodge immediately when you see the first running steps. If you identify the Sunlight Storm spell early, you can sprint towards it and attack safely few times before lighting rains down on you. In the event it casts Sunlight Storm, don't panic, but your dodge must be at the last possible second if you wish to safely avoid the attack. If you see the Soul of Cinder take a golf swing stance, roll away immediately and gain significant distance or you will be hit by its 5-hit combo. This moveset, averaged between its previous movesets, hits the hardest and the fastest. If you have beaten the final boss of Dark Souls, you will be at a great advantage.

 

In conjunction with everything else, below is a playbook of bits of knowledge that seperates the natural, intuitive stuff about the fight, and the complicated stuff that will get people killed. It's important to talk about this stuff, because then the fight becomes trial and error, and then the game is no longer fun and interesting, but instead it becomes a chore.

 

1. Soul of Cinder does not have a standard opening, but he generally opens up with a melee attack. Often, he will throw in a combo that uses delays to mess with timing, and it is better to just wait for a heavy attack, where he really throws his weight into the swing, for an opening. Try to roll in a diagonal direction, no more than just behind his left shoulder for an attack, and to avoid a counter-attack.

 

2. In the first phase, the player has no choice but to hit hard, because he will heal for about one third of his total HP, and also has a passive heal that will cut down your energy, level of interest, and estus flasks which will keep you in the game. 

 

3. Now about point 2-How does the player do that much damage? Of course, the player will know about levelling, but I guess on levelling, I can add that Dexterity often offers more AR points than Strength per level, so the player should, provided he picked a weapon with good STR and DEX scaling (C/C or better), put his levelling points into strength, or dexterity, depending on how high his AR in the desired category is going to be. However, strategies that tell the player to use a build are not very good, because often players sell off gear, or cannot reliably farm it out. That being said, if you want to rip apart the Soul of Cinder, you have to stay in such a range that you can roll right out of his first attack in his combo, so your timing is not messed up, and when he throws a heavy attack, you have about 2 seconds to hit him. Personally I used a +10 Refined Broadsword for about 750 damage for three hits, and that worked nice, but again, it doesn't help anything to say to get a better weapon.

 

So tactically speaking, in what scenarios can the player hit Cinder? The answer to that is basically every scenario, except for the time he is casting toxic mist, using Power Within, and/or using his giant curved sword. His passive healing period is kind of iffy, but doable if those conditions are met, as well.

 

4. If you miss an opening, don't get greedy. Cinder has incredible stopping power and you will lose the estus you need for those end-fight clutch moments.

 

5. In the first phase, Cinder may turn his weapon into a giant curved sword. Absolutely do NOT try to engage him in this phase. It is short, his attacks are so frequent that you cannot dodge, and there is a chance he will cast the Power Within pyromancy. It is absolutely not worth it. 

 

6. Again, the Soul of Cinder, in many encounters, uses the Power Within pyromancy. That being said, the player may be inclined to think that is the time to fight him, because he will lose HP, but this negative effect does NOT happen, and Cinder will use this time to chase you, and throw attacks with varying delays and ranges to roll-catch you. DO NOT fight him during this phase, and just avoid him until he loses his buff.

 

7. Cinder likes to healt with a miracle in his first phase. Use this time to get in enough hits to cancel out the effect, and make sure to get in hits before he tries this again, or you could end up being set back. The first phase is all about hustle because of this healing tendency, so the player should be all about getting every single opening, and absolutely wrecking the Soul of Cinder in those openings.

 

8. Cinder likes to turn his weapon into a staff, and cast magic, in homage to a very cool mechanic in Bloodborne. Most of the time he will spawn homing spells that float above his head (the type of homing spell is not important, just know that they will home in on you), but for the sheer stopping power of his magic, just in case he doesn't, throw a double or triple consecutive roll, because he may cast a very big homing soul arrow that will be hard to dodge. The reason why this contributor says to throw a double-roll is because he may cast a bunch of homing spells that cannot be safely evaded with a single roll, and have quite precise homing that defeats single rolls. It may be possible to throw a triple roll, but the player may lose too much stamina. He also casts this huge persistent beam, but spamming roll through it will keep you from getting hurt, for some reason. Otherwise, it is easy to hit him uring this phase, but the player should know that he will take a single swing of a giant magic blade, roughly ten feet long, and try to swipe you in a circular motion. This is a good time to get in some hits, in consistency with part 6. 

 

9. If you look at Cinder, his sword is covered in flame. Don't just use this to see his attacks, because he haas specific body signalling for all of his attacks, except for when he casts all of his spells with his staff, save for his persistent beam, and one or two of his lightning bolt attacks. So of course, paying more attention is going to give better results, and that is just an absolute. 

 

10. If Cinder keeps killing you, one trick is to mess with different passive stacking effects, from rings, armor, and other equipment. This keeps the fight interesting. This contributor knows that armor in the game is good on fire defense, so allocating all your fire defense to your shield and armor is totally doable, because the player will only lose about 1% of HP when he takes a hit on his shield from Cinder's sword. This is a good way to buy time to do more damage without healing, which the next point covers more.

 

11. Focus on the aspects that are hard to do in the fight (this also cures repeated deaths), that the player is not invincible to, and only pop one Estus at a time. (For example, personally this contributor was able to avoid his great-spear phase like a boss, but absolutely could not handle soul spears in the beginning attempts.) This drastically kills off Cinder's ability to just eat through a player's Estus, for that end-game clutch phase where the player's mind may cause him to mess up out of stress. If you have about eight flasks when he is at half health in his second phase (Gwyn phase), then at that trajectory, you will win.

 

12. In his second phase, he will channel the essence of Gwyn, the first Lord of Cinder, but retain some of his own abilities. Stay at a distance of about twenty feet to bait a high-flying aerial sword attack to punish him. He doesn't heal in most encounters of this phase, so this is viable.

 

13. If he happens to be healing in phase two, then his longest combo is six to eight hits. Use that as a measure of how difficult it is to avoid damage from him, and how many rolls to use in his attacks, if you have not learned his moves yet. The benefit of knowing this is that you now do not need to know everything about his moves!

 

14. This is not really a fight for fat-rolling tank builds. Take off some gear if you are over 70% encumbrance!!!

 

15. If the player wants to know this contributer's personal approach, and has plenty of means to find the better items of the game, I replaced as many ring slots as possible with abilities in my gear. So for DPS, instead of using the Knight and Hunter rings, I had a +10 Refined Broadsword, lots of points in strength and dex (almost 40/30). My remaining slots were used to make myself into a tank, where I had the Sun Princess Ring, Lloyd's Shield Ring, Ring of Steel Protection, and Chloranthy Ring. The last ring was not necessary because I properly levelled my stamina to deal with needing to dodge long combos, and boost my average damage output per given time frame. That meant I always had more than half my bar. I guess I could have thrown in a Pontiff's Left Eye or Estus Ring, but the Soul of Cinder was already losing his thunder with me, no pun intended. For fire resistance, I put on really fire resistant armor, and had the Dragon Crest Shield, for over 90% absorption to go with my current fire resistance. So, what was my strategy I was going for? I will tell you.

 

The strategy was hard because of all the dodging needed, and the patience needed, but safe. I would pop an ember, and punish his heavy attack, most often his thrust, because I was more comfortable with that. I would avoid any weird opening combos that I was not comfortable with, and would dodge if he was trying to roll-catch me, or throw off my timing. If I got hit, I would let my Sun Princess Ring regenerate as much as possible to get my Lloyd's Shield buff going, which stacked magnificently with my armor, and Ring of Steel Protection (35% resistance to physical damage, right off the bat, not including stats and armor.). My Dragon Crest shield would keep me safe, but I would dodge roll if it got hit, so I would not get stunned. If he went for his heal, I would hit him three or four times to nullify his heal. When I went to punish him in his openings, the rule was two hits, max, because of the pitifully above-average swinging pace of my Broadsword, and I did not pop more than one Estus at a time, no matter what. I kept in mind all the hard stuff about the fight that was defeating me, or making me lose my steam, and put extra focus on working around those things, and watching out for them.

 

As to my full stats and stuff, I was an athlete build. I was SL 112 with 39/12/40/17/38/30/11/9/7 going down the board for different stats. I messed up my STR and DEX levelling with my Broadsword because I could have optimized my AR rating by picking either DEX or STR from the get-go, but I still picked a starting class with high AR (the Knight). People say that your starting class doesn't matter, but in the beginning of the game it does, because if you are better at melee with weak STR and DEX, then you are going to get your behind kicked a lot.

 

In his second phase, I baited his high-flying lunge for some free hits, and just took other openings. That's it. I definitely kept an eye out for his more lethal attacks, as well.

 

16. In both phases, Soul of Cinder uses variable timing to seek the player with his blade, and roll-catch, as well. Keep an eye on both his blade and body (consistent with a pevious tip) to counteract this. This will save you from all of his melee attacks!

Strategy 2 (Magic)

Phase I 

The Soul of Cinder is resistant to fire, so opt to use dark spells if you work with pyromancy (most preferably Black Fire Orb). Always keep your distance from the Soul of Cinder. The first phase will be the most difficult, especially in its first swordphase. Choose your time to cast carefully, try always to use your spell after it has attacked. Still, your first priority is keeping your distance. Doing so will allow you to attack it while it is missing its attacks at you. During its scimitar/pyromancy phase, you will have ample opportunities to cast spells while it is casting its own pyromancies. Just beware of being hit by its own fireball. Its spear/miracle phase is arguably the easiest. Just beware of its spear charge and continue keeping your distance, and its spinning attack will miss you completely, giving you the chance to lob some spells at it. During its sorcery phase, beware of casting at the same time as it, unless it is using spells that are slower than yours and leave you the chance to dodge. Soul Stream is a good time to deal damage. 

Phase II

During Phase II the boss will have considerably less health, making this portion quicker. An attack you need to be careful of is its jumping slash. This is very fast and will close the distance to you almost instantly. Whenever it wants to do the five-hit-combo, it will raise up its greatsword and charge up the flame for a brief second, which allows you to evade. If you manage to evade being hit during its five-hit combo, it will simply continue doing the combo at nothing. This is a great chance to deal damage, but be careful not to get hit, since any hit during the combo will combo you.

Strategy 3 Rakuyo's Melee Tips

Sword

Stab attack (Attack, this is a great opening)

Fast swings (tricky, this can be part of a 3 hit combo, it's safest to attack after the combo ends)

Fiery strong attack (this can be go 3 ways)

1. It slashes upwards once. Tthis move resembles the Dark Sword strong attack and has great tracking and range (Block)
2. 3 slashes upwards  (Roll & Counter)
3. It holds its sword and turns around for a large swing (Roll & Counter)

 

Staff

(Roll & Counter)

This is great time to deal some damage with your melee character. 

It can use Farron Hail, Soul Spear, Soul Greatsword or Soul Stream but all these attacks are easy to roll under and counter.

Without its blue aura, Soul of Cinder can't summon Crystal Homing Soulmasses and it's very vulnerable as it has no fast attacks.

Crystal Homing Soulmasses have some AI, they are reluctant to attack when your shield is up. They get much more active when you lower your guard.

Its blue aura can last beyond this phase, but if you stagger it, the aura will disappear.

 

Spear

Fast stabs (Block/Roll) These come in too fast to get a hit in with most weapons. The combo can last for 3 stabs.

Strong attack (Circle/Roll & Counter, this is a great opportunity to attack)

Charge (Get behind it, Circle/Roll --> Attack)

Halberd Spin (Roll towards its back --> Attack)

Wrath of the God (Perfect Roll --> ranged attack or heal)

 

Curved Sword

(Ranged attacks and blocking)

In this mode it is most vulnerable to ranged attacks, like spells or Kukris.

Good openings are when it's casting Fireball, Poison Cloud, Power Within or Combustion

You can also hit it when it's coming at you but it may roll.

The best way to deal with its melee attacks is block and step backwards.

Sneak in a hit after its combos end.

Power Within may last beyond this phase but the spell will fade if you stagger it.

 

Lord of Cinder

This is phase 2 and it'll have less health than in phase 1.

Its best attack is a large combo followed by an explosion.

You must never block this attack as it's a real guard breaker.

It's clearly signalled by it holding its sword straight up.

If you see it, try and get away from it. If you break away you can sneak in some Kukris while it's doing the combo.

It can't keep doing that move but its other moves are still good guardbreakers.

The best strategy is to Roll & Counter as much as possible and keep away from its signature attack.

Its kicks, grabs and smashes are particularly easy to roll under and get in a hit.

Attacks

 

 

Lore Theories

• The Soul of Cinder is the deific manifestation of every person that linked the fire, which is why it uses player movesets in the first phase to emulate every player that chose the Link the Fire ending in Dark Souls. In phase 2, it uses Gwyn's moveset out of desperation at having been bested in all of its previous fighting styles.
• "Since Lord Gwyn, the first Lord of Cinder, many exalted lords have linked the First Flame, and it is their very souls that have manifested themselves as defender of the flame." - Soul of the Lords.

 Notes

• Soul of Cinder attacks are connected with 7 types of damages, what makes creating a proper build difficult.  
• One of few bosses in series that is capable of parrying and riposting player. 
• The first time you fight Soul of Cinder, it will do a specific pattern to show you all 4 movesets, but not in one specific order. During 2nd, 3rd, etc. attempt he may not use some fighting patterns.
• During second phase, flame explosion is capable of deflecting spells like Great Soul Dregs. Strangely, it will not deflect throwable items like Kukri.

Trivia

• While the second phase is on, a rebooted version of Gwyn, Lord of Cinder's bossfight soundtrack from Dark Souls can be heard.
• In the first phase, its weapon switchings are similiar to weapon transformations in Bloodborne.
• The flowers surrounding the First Flame are very similar to the flowers found in the Hunter's Dream (Bloodborne) and in The Ringed City.
• The Soul of Cinder is available as figure for Funko Pop line and Dark Souls 3 Collector's Edition - in order to avoid spoilers - under the name of "Red Knight".
• Few of Soul of Cinder abilities mirror Nameless King (Dark Souls III), Gwyn (Dark Souls I), and Manus (Dark Souls I: Artorias of the Abyss).